Oh! Yes, yes; I stand by that. That's the gist of it: most legitimate subcultures provide role models for adult behaviour; while newbies might do the embarrassing things all teenagers do, they are generally encouraged to mature. Geeks fawn all over their subculture ("Teehee! I get the references on this comedic tee shirt! No one has EVER thought to market along these lines before!") they do not provide any system of social responsibility. And if called on this, geeks generally whinge on about how it isn't their job to help others mature. Almost any sin can be forgiven if one can talk the right trivia about Optimus Prime/Boba Fett/d20 system/whatever.